.
Feedback

Poll: Do You Support The 3-Foot Bicycle Passing Rule?

A bill has passed the state senate requiring automobiles to pass no closer than three feet to bicyclists. Tell us what you think in the comments.

In the wake of several vehicle collisions that have left bicyclists dead or injured, legislators are proposing a law that would make it a legal requirement for automobiles to give bicyclists a minimum clearance of three feet when passing.

You can read more about SB 1464 HERE.

SB 1464 has passed the state Senate and is up for a vote by the Assembly Friday.

As with other places in California, the greater San Gabriel Valley has some spots that are very popular with bikers: the Angeles Crest Highway and Glendora Mountain Road both see a lot of bike traffic on weekends.

There were several notable fatal accidents in 2011 in Pasadena, a serious involving bikers in Monrovia last month, and a in January of 2012 also in Monrovia.

However, who believe that bad cyclist behavior is a major problem on the road that also leads to accidents.  

So we want to know what you think: will this law help decrease cyclist accidents?  Or do you believe that bike accidents will only decrease if cyclists start doing more to obey the law?  As a driver, do you think this law will impact how you drive?  As a cyclist, will you feel more protected under this law or not?  

Tell us what you think in the comments section and vote in our poll below.

Gayle M. Montgomery August 27, 2012 at 01:50 am
David, back to bully, I see. Don't contribute to the dialogue, just sprinkle doo and think it will stick. I've already explained to the editors the context of my posts and deleting is my option as is yours.
Gayle M. Montgomery August 27, 2012 at 01:56 am
@billsd, you're telling me that bicylcists can ride anywhere they choose. Hop on the freeway, and then let's talk. The places I am citing are places where the road is not designed safely enough for the bicyclists to navigate along with the cars. As for lane changing buddy, I've been driving for 40 years. 3 tickets, 1 I would have fought but, in reviewing it with my insurance person, he said everybody loses, and the cost to my glowing insurance rate would have been greater than just paying it. Rode home tonight. Dark, 3 people on bicycles hauling down a dark road. Moved to the fast lane until I had past them and only because I needed to make a right turn. For all your lauded degrees and self-adulation, you're not getting it. And you, personally, are hampering your own case. You have called anyone who contested your position a liar, a psychotic, and now, I shouldn't drive. Well, fact of the matter, I don't drive as much any more. I take public transit to cut down on the fuel impacts, the cost, and the stress. But I cannot get to public transit without the car, and the places I have cited as dangerous are roads I take 5 days a week twice a day. I sensed from some of your responses, you didn't know what they are. Go find them. Then let's talk. Clearly, debate had to be in your retinue of courses. Try persuasion instead of destruction.
Gayle M. Montgomery August 27, 2012 at 02:03 am
Bill your degrees do not impress or intimidate me. Congratulations, you mastered calculus; I studied 3 languages at a time when, if you took language, you didn't HAVE to take all that math. Further, I'm deeply entrenched with folks in IT so that doesn't impress me either. I completed a driving course this spring to avoid a rise in insurance rates for a ticket I would have contested but it would have been more costly to pay if I had lost, and the insurance man said everyone does. But as far as your bicycle course, I am not going to take them. My bike riding days are done. I have severe arthritis and periodic bouts of gout. It is hereditary and a gift of my ancestors. I know you know what those are. You were able to best yours; I didn't have the same chance. But I'll be darned if you will paint me the village idiot when it comes to bicycling. Where yesterday, I only cared about the specific situations of which I spoke, today, you have pushed me so far that I'd just about write a Congressperson or sign a petition against your plight. If I cared. I don't. So quit patting yourself on the back with some degree of superiority, share the road (because you'd have us think you have the absolute right away above all others), and play nicely. I'm done.
billdsd August 27, 2012 at 02:29 am
Apparently you didn't read what I wrote AGAIN.
I said anywhere but controlled access highways. A freeway is a controlled access highway.
billdsd August 27, 2012 at 02:32 am
I did have to take all that math and more in order to get a degree in mathematics.
I had to do all of that study in bicycle safety in order to understand bicycle safety. That's the point. You're trying to pretend that you understand a subject which you have not studied. Do you know three languages by just making them up as you go along? Of course you don't. You studied them. That's why you know them. You're not an idiot for not knowing bicycle safety. The problem comes in pretending that you know it.
David D August 27, 2012 at 03:05 am
rather be called a bully anyday than BE a racist
billdsd August 27, 2012 at 03:07 am
I don't see where she said anything racist. She has made a lot of bigoted statements though.
Gayle M. Montgomery August 27, 2012 at 03:32 am
Bill, ignore David. I've flagged the Patch to handle this. It's a throwback to another discussion or at least a couple, and he appears to be a stalker. Doesn't say much. Jumps in to personally attack, doesn't add to the discussion, and has been apparently waiting for a chance to pounce. I'd explain the other discussion, but there was a suggestion about TOS with which I did not agree but chose to delete the posts, withdraw from the discussion and move on. But, as for bigotry, I would say a mirror could also be held up in your direction with regard to this term. Have a good night, ride safely, see you on the road. From Dictionary.com
"big·ot   [big-uht] noun a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion."
billdsd August 27, 2012 at 03:37 am
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” -- Isaac Asimov
You think that you don't have to study bicycle safety in order to have a valid opinion on it. You have to study it to have a valid opinion.
Gayle M. Montgomery August 27, 2012 at 03:44 am
Bill, while reading the bicycle handbook is important to you, it is not to me. Period. Sorry if that offends you, but I don't need to know all of the laws as they relate to bike riders, I have just have avoid them judiciously with my vehicle and do. While you were busy formulating your position and links, I was sending two grandkids back to their parents after having had one a majority of the year and the other most of the summer having gotten them school ready. In between these posts, I have also posted a series of job leads to the 3800 people on the jobs board I have been running pro bono for museum folk for the past 10 years. There is just so much time in my day to allocate. Your manual is not one of them. I wlll repeat, I completed driving school this spring to satisfy a ticket (the first in 30 years). There were things I was refreshed on and new things to consider. I don't care what color the signs are, I will obey them. I don't need to know the full bicycle code. I'm not going to ride a bike, and if you have read it this thoroughly, to the point you push it, you help to make the base case for licensing bicyclists. If motorcycles must have a special license, and big rigs must, why not bikes? I get the part about little kids and bike, but we're talking rec type. Have a good night.
billdsd August 27, 2012 at 03:58 am
If you refuse to learn bicycle safety, then you should refrain from telling bicyclists how to ride.
I don't tell people how to speak Chinese because I haven't studied Chinese. Unless you are willing to study bicycle safety, then you needs to stop telling bicyclists how they should ride.
Gayle M. Montgomery August 27, 2012 at 04:43 am
Bill, I don't need the bicycle code. I'm operating a vehicle that says this and is basically indicating what I originally said about bicyclists thinking they are cars and going to slow. http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21202.htm
You gave me a quote. I'll leave you with one. You may consider me the extremist, I think it of you and your position. "What is objectionable, what is dangerous about extremists is not that they are extreme, but they are intolerant. The evil is not what they say about their cause, but what they say about their opponents." Robert Kennedy. Thus far, people are psychotic, liars, should not drive the road (though are you going to support me if I cannot get to work, would you prefer that I go on welfare or disability?). Your position has been cavalier. You own a driver's license. Did you not know the vehicle code said what I have included?
Bill C. August 27, 2012 at 07:26 am
You're just another weak hater type David and that Patch allows your attack posts to stay up and take down other posts down is pretty pathetic. You have added nothing to this conversation and are here only to attack Gayle. I don't agree with everything she says but you need to move on and stow the on-line stalking and speak on topic. By the way, I agree with everything Virgil wrote. See I'm on topic.
billdsd August 27, 2012 at 11:54 am
Gayle, I've only mentioned 21202 twice before you did.
The fact is that I am an expert on 21202. Not only have I read it many times, I have read legal analysis of it by lawyers and read multiple courts cases on it. Remember where I mentioned that I had studied the vehicle code? This is what I'm talking about. CVC 21202(a) exempts bicyclists from the requirement to keep far right "(3) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes) that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge, subject to the provisions of Section 21656. For purposes of this section, a "substandard width lane" is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane." It turns out that most outside lanes are too narrow for a bicycle and a car to travel safely side by side within the lane. According to most safety experts and some state laws and/or road designs standards any lane under 14 feet is too narrow. The law says ANY condition that makes it unsafe qualifies and exemption. 21202(a) also exempts bicyclists from the requirement to keep far right "(4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized." This is because drivers are far more likely to turn in front of a bicyclist when they are keeping far right. Reading skills please.
billdsd August 27, 2012 at 12:16 pm
I am intolerant of ignorance presented as knowledge.
You are intolerant of knowledge.
billdsd August 27, 2012 at 02:13 pm
I apologize for my many typos. I am not a great typist.
Tomer Gurantz August 27, 2012 at 02:42 pm
I know, I can't believe they are passing this law when it's obvious it will send all those business dollars to other states. Noone wants to drive with cyclists around so they will close shop and move! Nevermind that cycling and pedestrians increases the chances that you spend money locally on small businesses in the community, mostly because you NOTICE your community, and avoid the easy drive to Walmart 10 miles away. Stop this madness of passing laws that protect human life! Get back to legislating something vague about money!
Tomer Gurantz August 27, 2012 at 02:53 pm
There are already laws that do enforce what you mention. There are also laws and reasons that say why a cyclist shouldn't by hugging the right-side: debris, safety concerns re potholes, glass, maintaining predictability by riding in a straight line instead of in-and-out of parked cars, taking sharp turns down Angeles Crest Highway because they are going downhill at high speeds, etc.
I think the world of bicycling NOT as a sport, because I'm not riding for sport. I'm riding for the same reason you drive, to get from A to B. Not all of us are rich and can afford cars (esp including maintenance and gas), and the mass transit system is way too lacking in this city. You mention a cyclist riding in the center to prevent a car from making a RIGHT turn. What should they have done? Ride on the right so the car can speed up and turn in front of them (unsafe), or ride further over to the left so the car can pass them quickly on the right on a very narrow lane (unsafe). The car should've waited, if I understand your post correctly. Ya, I might've reacted similarly.
Tomer Gurantz August 27, 2012 at 03:09 pm
You are playing a fun game of tit-for-tat, when in fact what you are proposing doesn't benefit much.
The law already says that as a cyclist must ride as far to the right as safely possibly. If you wanted your quote above added, then by all means, and we can add "unless it is unsafe to do so", since we need to still provide for safety of avoiding dangerous obstacles, potholes, etc. In fact I often take the lane (after looking back to ensure it's safe; yes, some cyclists do that), when I notice people who are getting into their car or a car parking, just in case they do go out into the street unpredictably. I.e. riding as far to the right is PURPOSELY vague, it has to be. You may argue that the law already states that cyclists should be passed at a safe distance, however the whole problem is that this statement is TOO vague and how open is to interpretation has obviously been dangerous to human life.
Steve Buckner August 27, 2012 at 04:19 pm
I stopped riding a bicycle in the 6th grade. The spandex panties must have done it.
Tomer Gurantz August 27, 2012 at 04:44 pm
@Laura: ripping up the side of a car is no joke, sure. Then again, threatening a whole group with bodily harm and possible death lacks any humor at all, and does leave you open to a bit of harsher litigation, even if you were to hit a cyclist by pure accident in the near future.
You want to drive without obstacles, and cyclists want to be able to ride on the road (where they often prevent many of you from going at your preferred pace). This in addition to being in a city where going at your preferred pace is near impossible due to the traffic. I get it, it's a sensitive topic. That said, as a cyclist, I find it goes a bit to close to inciting violence against me for being where I should be, and I just think the comment is a bit irresponsible.
Tomer Gurantz August 27, 2012 at 04:57 pm
As a cyclist, pedestrian, motorist, and citizen I cannot agree with you more on all your points.
billdsd August 27, 2012 at 05:06 pm
@Tomer: In my experience, I am rarely slowed down by bicyclists when I am in my car. A big part of that is that when I see a bicyclist in front of me, I change lanes at the earliest safe opportunity. That usually means that I don't even have to slow down.
People who refuse to change lanes are only slowed down by their own stupidity.
Tomer Gurantz August 27, 2012 at 08:02 pm
@Mike: I love how people suddenly attribute the bicycle movement to 'geeks' or 'young professionals' or 'liberals', when in fact most cyclists are those that cannot afford other means of transportation, and are working class, and the common person, or just finding it a preferred mode of transit (there are lots of benefits that have nothing to do with environment or being 'green').
I suppose it's like me saying that because you are a car driver, you are an angry, rich totalitarian. I doubt that really applies to most car drivers. It's just another divisive trick and you've been bought into the stereotypes that you claim the rest of us are buying into.
Tomer Gurantz August 27, 2012 at 08:06 pm
I am a daily cyclist. That said I was driving down Verdugo/Glendale Blvd and a cyclist who was booking it downhilll on the sidewalk suddenly swung out on a driveway and went right in from of me... no looking. I was paying very close attention as I usually do (lucky him) and slowed down to prevent his death. Was he an idiot? Yes. Would I have been liable for this accident in a court of law? No. The 3-foot law does not say that a cyclist swerving into traffic has no culpability. It merely says that all else being equal, if the cyclist and car and driving down the road and the car doesn't provide this safety cushion and there is a collision, the onus is on the car. As it should be.
HDC September 1, 2012 at 11:07 am
I personally do not like being "waved through a stop sign" when I'm on my bike. Just because one person waves me through doesn't mean everyone else is going to waive my obligation to stop. It's a lot less confusing if everyone just obeys the stop signs according to the Vehicle Code. That said, I would love to see more bike-friendly intersections and bike lanes. How cool is this? https://pricetags.wordpress.com/2012/08/23/the-hovenring-a-new-level-of-bike-infrastructure/
HDC September 1, 2012 at 06:27 pm
Just read through that first reference. Glad to see I'm already doing much of what's recommended there. There's one sentence that sums up much of the problem in a nutshell:
"If most bicyclists in your community use incorrect maneuvers, drivers will have some trouble understanding your correct maneuvers." Alas, so true. I just love getting yelled at when I don't pull over to the curb in the gaps between parked cars, or when I don't go into a right-turn-only lane when I'm proceeding straight through an intersection on my bike.
billdsd September 1, 2012 at 06:40 pm
Yes, that can be a problem.
The thing that kind of drives me crazy is drivers who expect me to roll through stop signs even though it's not my turn. They'll even start waving me through sometimes. I'd much rather that they just took their turn. I find the right turn only lane thing a bit aggravating too. It's actually illegal to travel straight through in a right turn only lane (CVC 21461+CA MUTCD 2B.20.02,14) but some drivers get angry with me for not doing that.
Gayle M. Montgomery September 1, 2012 at 07:08 pm
HDC, your point about being waved through was gone over in the traffic school I took online. Scenario was three drivers (which could be riders). One waves the other through, that person goes, and get smacked by the person who actually had the right of way. They strongly encouraged you not to wave others on. The inference is you are not a traffic cop and should not be directing traffic.
Gayle M. Montgomery September 18, 2012 at 11:46 am
The Bike Mafia needs to get together and help police itself. Now, instead of riding in the slow lane on Foothill because I need to turn right off that street, I ride in the fast lane until i get closer to my turn. But just in the last week, I observed, west bound on Foothill Blvd, rush hour traffic, though there was room to ride on the extreme right, bicyclist in the center of the lane, impeding traffic. Over the weekend, east bound on Royal Oaks near Immaculate Conception, 3 bicyclists riding 3 abreast filling the lane, impeding 4 cars from driving the normal speed in order to turn on Mountain. One turned and saw the cars, they made no effort to go single file. This morning, east bound on Chestnut, 6 bicyclists riding 2 and 3 abreast filling the lane. They made no effort to get over. You could not go around them and coukd not safely turn right at the intersection. These last 2 were 2 lane roads. Asserting your needs is one thing, but irresponsibly and inconsiderately sharing the road is arrogant and does nothing to promote your cause. There have been other observations. These are the most recent. We all need to be considerate on the road no matter the conveyance.

Newsletter & Alerts

Get the best stories each day and important breaking news

Subscribe

Not from South Pasadena Patch? Find your Local Patch »

Note Article
Just a short thought to get the word out quickly about anything in your neighborhood.
Share something with your neighbors. Write a new post... What's up? Make an announcement, speak your mind, or sell something
Barry Wiggins (Bobby) & Iona Morris (Lee). Photo Carla L. Fallberg.
Dominique Heffley June 13, 2013 at 01:34 pm
Our fundraiser is just past 25% of our goal. Help us reach $5,000 by tonight! Visit our website forRead More show info and to donate. www.FremontCentreTheatre.com.
look closely at power lines above cable lines
TRT June 18, 2013 at 05:29 pm
If the power lines belong to SCE (Southern California Edison), lines going from a pole to anotherRead More pole - not the ones feeding your home, call them. They are the ones who can help you on this matter.
Darrell Jan June 18, 2013 at 07:51 pm
Thanks!
Donna Evans (Editor) June 10, 2013 at 10:12 am
You can definitely follow specific news! If you only wanted to follow police and fire, for example,Read More click on the News tab on the home page. Then, down the left side of the page are multiple news categories. Click the one you want and then it'll ask you if you want to receive email updates about this topic. Once you do, it'll show you as "subscribed.'' If you follow "Top News'' you receive updates on all stories.
TRT June 16, 2013 at 10:13 am
Personally I do not want to get updates on all stories under a given category. It is too bad that weRead More can no longer follow specific stories as we used to.... As it is I get too many e-mails.... I hope patch will consider to allow following of specific stories instead of all stories under a given category.
Reevah Simon June 5, 2013 at 06:08 pm
How horrible!! I wish they could do the same thing to the creatures who did this. I hope they'reRead More found and ostracized by their community. R. Simon
AYSO - VIP Soccer Region 214
Joe Fitz- May 28, 2013 at 08:12 am
You may also contact Coach Joe Fitzpatrick, joefitzmail@gmail.com for more information or if youRead More have any questions.